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	<title>Comments on: More J Street Craziness</title>
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	<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/</link>
	<description>Political Talk from James Besser in Washington</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: fnord</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-7195</link>
		<dc:creator>fnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-7195</guid>
		<description>I think much of the outrage against J-street comes from three points: 

1) They are emerging at a time when the "pro-Israel" factions have the job of supporting Bibi and Lieberman, wich is a tough sell to do rationally, much like the selling of Sarah Palin. Everyone knows that when your goods have no quality, you make a circus out of promoting it and try to smear those who serve better products.

2) They are emerging at the tme of the great implosion of the Republican party, and the collapse of the rhetoric of Rove. As the election shows, the demography has swung in favour of the dems, and the right just doesnt have the intelectual power or integrity to discuss on fair terms. Thus, namecalling, fanaticsm, accusation, conspiracy theories etc.

3) They dont get on with the program, and they dont use the official hasbara playbook, instead they speak the political language of the contemporary west. As any linguist or memetic scientist can tell you, one of the greatest dangers to a dominant paradigm is to face inside opposition employing different linguistic codes. From a Israeli pov, they are loose cannons, and so not part of the "pro-Israeli" *team*. That makes them dangerous, and makes people hysterical. The Hagee-part of the lobby just woke up and found they were communication-dinosaurs facing a new era. They dont do adaption and evolution very well, in fact they dont believe in it, and they will not face extinction very gracefully.

Of course, the fact that Israel seems to be slipping into some sort of semi-collective PTSD doesnt help either. Read the comments (and most articles as well) at Jerusalem Post and weep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think much of the outrage against J-street comes from three points: </p>
<p>1) They are emerging at a time when the &#8220;pro-Israel&#8221; factions have the job of supporting Bibi and Lieberman, wich is a tough sell to do rationally, much like the selling of Sarah Palin. Everyone knows that when your goods have no quality, you make a circus out of promoting it and try to smear those who serve better products.</p>
<p>2) They are emerging at the tme of the great implosion of the Republican party, and the collapse of the rhetoric of Rove. As the election shows, the demography has swung in favour of the dems, and the right just doesnt have the intelectual power or integrity to discuss on fair terms. Thus, namecalling, fanaticsm, accusation, conspiracy theories etc.</p>
<p>3) They dont get on with the program, and they dont use the official hasbara playbook, instead they speak the political language of the contemporary west. As any linguist or memetic scientist can tell you, one of the greatest dangers to a dominant paradigm is to face inside opposition employing different linguistic codes. From a Israeli pov, they are loose cannons, and so not part of the &#8220;pro-Israeli&#8221; *team*. That makes them dangerous, and makes people hysterical. The Hagee-part of the lobby just woke up and found they were communication-dinosaurs facing a new era. They dont do adaption and evolution very well, in fact they dont believe in it, and they will not face extinction very gracefully.</p>
<p>Of course, the fact that Israel seems to be slipping into some sort of semi-collective PTSD doesnt help either. Read the comments (and most articles as well) at Jerusalem Post and weep.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6980</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6980</guid>
		<description>J Street is to Israel as Jews for Jesus is to Judaism.  Let's face it.  There are many self hating Jews that want to attack all forms of Jewish support for a strong safe Israel.  They are for Humanistic Judaism.  They are for pluralism.  They are for Yiddish speaking socialist culture.  They celebrate the Holocaust.  But they absolutely despise a strong Israel.  They despise an Israel that fights to protect its Jewish citizens from Arab terror.  They have shame.  I say let them choke on their self hatred while the majority of sane Jews support a strong successful and safe Israel.  Perhaps the J Streeters need to eat some hot Shabbos meat chulent and tasty shmaltz herring with a shot or two of scotch, rather than choke down stale cheerios and cold milk.  Good Shabbos !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J Street is to Israel as Jews for Jesus is to Judaism.  Let&#8217;s face it.  There are many self hating Jews that want to attack all forms of Jewish support for a strong safe Israel.  They are for Humanistic Judaism.  They are for pluralism.  They are for Yiddish speaking socialist culture.  They celebrate the Holocaust.  But they absolutely despise a strong Israel.  They despise an Israel that fights to protect its Jewish citizens from Arab terror.  They have shame.  I say let them choke on their self hatred while the majority of sane Jews support a strong successful and safe Israel.  Perhaps the J Streeters need to eat some hot Shabbos meat chulent and tasty shmaltz herring with a shot or two of scotch, rather than choke down stale cheerios and cold milk.  Good Shabbos !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6838</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6838</guid>
		<description>I am a liberal, center-left Democrat and a proud Zionist. To me, J Street is a JOKE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a liberal, center-left Democrat and a proud Zionist. To me, J Street is a JOKE.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Cohen</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6823</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6823</guid>
		<description>Noah and Avi:  I was critical of the federal government while Bush was president.  Very critical.  Very very critical.  I never had a good thing to say about our government over the course of 8 years.  Admittedly, not everything the Bush administration did was bad.  Funding for AIDS/HIV prevention in Africa comes to mind.  I can't say I spent very much time reciting these accomplishments.  I would say that typing that sentence is about it, actually.  Many of my statements about my country and its policies during this time were very similar, some might say, in content, rhetoric, and tone, to statements by Pat Buchanan, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, and even Osama Bin Laden.  But in point of fact, I love my country, and the only thing that makes me in any way similar to the names I've mentioned is that we all didn't like what Bush was doing.

I believe that Israel's security and continued existence is vital.  I think this makes me "pro-Israel."  I also have very little that is positive to say about their current policies.  I can see how they got there, I can sympathize, but I think they are doing great harm to others and to themselves.  In other words, I think my position is very similar to the position of the people at J Street.  Does this make me "anti-Israel"?  If so, how?  I think you will find it very difficult to construct a logically valid argument as to how my position makes me "anti-Israel."  But I imagine, based on your comments thus far, that logical validity is not something you consider to be of importance.  (Hint: Guilt by association, affirming the consequent, and circular reasoning are not valid approaches to argument.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noah and Avi:  I was critical of the federal government while Bush was president.  Very critical.  Very very critical.  I never had a good thing to say about our government over the course of 8 years.  Admittedly, not everything the Bush administration did was bad.  Funding for AIDS/HIV prevention in Africa comes to mind.  I can&#8217;t say I spent very much time reciting these accomplishments.  I would say that typing that sentence is about it, actually.  Many of my statements about my country and its policies during this time were very similar, some might say, in content, rhetoric, and tone, to statements by Pat Buchanan, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong Il, and even Osama Bin Laden.  But in point of fact, I love my country, and the only thing that makes me in any way similar to the names I&#8217;ve mentioned is that we all didn&#8217;t like what Bush was doing.</p>
<p>I believe that Israel&#8217;s security and continued existence is vital.  I think this makes me &#8220;pro-Israel.&#8221;  I also have very little that is positive to say about their current policies.  I can see how they got there, I can sympathize, but I think they are doing great harm to others and to themselves.  In other words, I think my position is very similar to the position of the people at J Street.  Does this make me &#8220;anti-Israel&#8221;?  If so, how?  I think you will find it very difficult to construct a logically valid argument as to how my position makes me &#8220;anti-Israel.&#8221;  But I imagine, based on your comments thus far, that logical validity is not something you consider to be of importance.  (Hint: Guilt by association, affirming the consequent, and circular reasoning are not valid approaches to argument.)</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6819</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6819</guid>
		<description>Avi &#38; Noah, before you accuse J-Street and its supporters of being "anti-Israel," please try explaining to the rest of us how your resistance to the ultimate goal of Zionism -- namely, the reintegration of the Jewish people in its native region of the world with all the national dignity it deserves -- is supposed to be "pro-Israel."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avi &amp; Noah, before you accuse J-Street and its supporters of being &#8220;anti-Israel,&#8221; please try explaining to the rest of us how your resistance to the ultimate goal of Zionism &#8212; namely, the reintegration of the Jewish people in its native region of the world with all the national dignity it deserves &#8212; is supposed to be &#8220;pro-Israel.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: anthony deloach</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6803</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony deloach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6803</guid>
		<description>This is a huge relief fro their community especially those in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a huge relief fro their community especially those in America.</p>
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		<title>By: Avi</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6776</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6776</guid>
		<description>The bottom line is J Street is not a Pro-Israel group. In its agenda it repeatedly sides with Hamas and Fatah. It shouldn't call itself a Pro-Israel group, when it's not.

J Street cynically exploits a pro-Israel brand, which naturally annoys groups that actually are Pro-Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line is J Street is not a Pro-Israel group. In its agenda it repeatedly sides with Hamas and Fatah. It shouldn&#8217;t call itself a Pro-Israel group, when it&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>J Street cynically exploits a pro-Israel brand, which naturally annoys groups that actually are Pro-Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: TheNonPartisan</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6758</link>
		<dc:creator>TheNonPartisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6758</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, Avi, I know most of the leadership of J Street and none of them is anti-Israel nor are they fooling themselves or others.  They simply hold different beliefs as to how to bring about peace in the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, Avi, I know most of the leadership of J Street and none of them is anti-Israel nor are they fooling themselves or others.  They simply hold different beliefs as to how to bring about peace in the region.</p>
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		<title>By: Avi</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6755</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6755</guid>
		<description>No one's going batty.

The problem is that J Street misrepresents itself as a Pro-Israel group, when it is actually an Anti-Israel group.

If the people behind J Street were just honest about their identity, instead of playing a Jews for Jesus like game, in order to fool people, we wouldn't be having this discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one&#8217;s going batty.</p>
<p>The problem is that J Street misrepresents itself as a Pro-Israel group, when it is actually an Anti-Israel group.</p>
<p>If the people behind J Street were just honest about their identity, instead of playing a Jews for Jesus like game, in order to fool people, we wouldn&#8217;t be having this discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: PHB</title>
		<link>http://jewish-politics-ny.com/2009/07/20/more-j-street-craziness/#comment-6753</link>
		<dc:creator>PHB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jewish-politics-ny.com/?p=270#comment-6753</guid>
		<description>It is exactly the type of reaction you get from people who are in denial. They do not want to accept the fact that Israel is not always in the right. so they start spluttering about NAZIs and so on.

At the heart of the problem is the fact that Israel does not have the slightest interest in accepting a two state solution, any more than Hamas does. The real reason the two state solution is continuously brought up is that US public opinion cannot support the status quo as a permanent state of affairs.

Once it is understood that Israel will not withdraw from the West Bank under any circumstances, will continue to expand the settlements and put Jewish interests ahead of non-Jewish at every stage, it becomes impossible for progressives to support Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is exactly the type of reaction you get from people who are in denial. They do not want to accept the fact that Israel is not always in the right. so they start spluttering about NAZIs and so on.</p>
<p>At the heart of the problem is the fact that Israel does not have the slightest interest in accepting a two state solution, any more than Hamas does. The real reason the two state solution is continuously brought up is that US public opinion cannot support the status quo as a permanent state of affairs.</p>
<p>Once it is understood that Israel will not withdraw from the West Bank under any circumstances, will continue to expand the settlements and put Jewish interests ahead of non-Jewish at every stage, it becomes impossible for progressives to support Israel.</p>
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